Is this what we have to resort to...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/15/england.dentists/index.html


LONDON, England (CNN) -- Some English people have resorted to pulling out their own teeth because they cannot find -- or cannot afford -- a dentist, a major study has revealed.


Six percent of those surveyed in an English study said they had resorted to dental "self-treatment."

Six percent of those questioned in a survey of 5,000 patients admitted they had resorted to self-treatment using pliers and glue, the UK's Press Association reported.

England has a two-tier dental care system with some dentists offering publicly subsidized treatment through the National Health Service and others performing more expensive private work.

But more than three-quarters of those polled said they had been forced to pay for private treatment because they had been unable to find an NHS dentist. Almost a fifth said they had refused dental treatment because of the cost.

One respondent in Lancashire, northern England, claimed to have extracted 14 of their own teeth with a pair of pliers. In Liverpool, one of those collecting data for the survey interviewed three people who had pulled out their own teeth in one morning.

"I took most of my teeth out in the shed with pliers. I have one to go," another respondent wrote.

Others said they had fixed broken crowns using glue to avoid costly dental work.

Valerie Halsworth, 64, told British television's GMTV she had removed seven of her own teeth using her husband's pliers when her toothache became unbearable and she was unable to find an NHS dentist willing to treat her.

Halsworth admitted that the first extraction had been "excruciatingly painful." But she added: "It got that painful that I just had to do something... When you have taken a tooth out... the pain has gone."

Sharon Grant, chair of the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health, which commissioned the survey, said: "These findings indicate that the NHS dental system is letting many patients down very badly.

"Where NHS dental services are available, people are happy with the quality of treatment provided but many find the NHS fee system confusing and expensive, with some patients taking out loans to pay for treatment or more worryingly taking matters into their own hands.

does anyone really listen to her

IMHO us anarchists would prefer if coulter just stayed in front of the camera and have more pix like this.

and they wonder why Student have give up on school

NOtices coming home telling me "johnny cant read or Johnny is having trouble with MATH is one thig, but wasting my taxpayer dollars having professionals examine "my"kid" and sensing homwe a notice the Mary Jane is overwight is bullshit and should not be tolerated in out "public schools.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=78903

DENVER – In an effort to combat the problem of childhood obesity, the Denver Public School District is sending home student health reports to keep parents informed. However, one parent says it should not have been sent home in her daughter's backpack because she read it.

"The part that upset her the most as she started reading it, there it stated that she was overweight and she started to cry saying, 'Mom, that school tells me I'm fat.' So, it was very heart wrenching," said Flaurette Martinez.

Her daughter Isabel was sent home from the Centennial K-8 School on Monday with the health notice. It listed her height, weight and body mass index – a measure of body fat. Underneath the listing it had a marking next to the status "overweight."

"My daughter is big boned," said Martinez.

Isabel's mother does not have a problem with what the schools are trying to do. She says that type of sensitive information should be mailed directly home to parents, because kids are prone to reading letters sent home by the schools.

"If she would have dropped this letter, a student may have found it and may have exposed it to other students," said Martinez. "Anything specific to the child should be mailed. It should not be given to the child."

However, DPS Spokesperson Alex Sanchez says schools do that all the time. Report cards, disciplinary notices and letters from the principal are commonly sent home with students. Sanchez says it is cheaper for the district to send these things home with students instead of by mail.

Martinez says that decision is causing her daughter emotional distress.

"Most of the information that we get sent to us through the kids is basically newsletters, but nothing this sensitive. This is a sensitive issue for everybody," she said. "It's real upsetting for me to see her worried so much about her weight issue when it's not really that big of a deal. She's not that overweight."

DPS issued this statement Thursday afternoon: "In an effort to help ensure our students' health, Denver Public Schools provides parents with their child's hearing, vision, and body mass index (BMI) results in a sealed envelope that is sent home with the students. DPS feels compelled to inform parents about these very important health screening results and provide information about making healthier choices. The health of our students is very important to us and we wish to be part of the solution, given the nation's childhood obesity epidemic."

9NEWS asked Martinez repeatedly if sharing Isabel's identity and her health information will make things worse. Martinez wanted people to see her picture so they would know Isabel is not that big. She also says the damage was already done when she read the notice and she's talked to Isabel about addressing this issue of sending the notices home with students. Martinez says her daughter is OK with this information being released.


(Copyright KUSA*TV, All Rights Reserved)

where are the protests ..remember 9/11

Empire State Building to go green for Muslim holiday
Oct 10 03:10 PM US/Eastern






New York's iconic Empire State Building is to be lit up green from Friday in honor of the Muslim holiday of Eid, the biggest festival in the Muslim calendar marking the end of Ramadan, officials said.

"This is the first time that the Empire State Building will be illuminated for Eid, and the lighting will become an annual event in the same tradition of the yearly lightings for Christmas and Hannukah," according to a statement.

Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of the fasting month, is expected to be celebrated in New York from Friday, depending on when the new moon is sighted, and the city's tallest skyscraper will remain green until Sunday.

Built in the early 1930s, the 443-meter-tall (1,454-feet-tall) Empire State Building was first lit up with colored lighting in 1976, when red, white and blue lights were used to mark the American Bicentennial.

An estimated seven million Muslims live in the United States.

what next no smoking in your own home

I could not believe this bullshit.

By STEVE LAWRENCE, Associated Press WriterThu Oct 11, 6:04 AM ET

California motorists will risk fines of up to $100 next year if they are caught smoking in cars with minors, making their state the third to protect children in vehicles from secondhand smoke.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Wednesday signed a bill that will make it an infraction to smoke in a vehicle if someone under age 18 is present. But the traffic stop would have to be made for another offense, such as speeding or an illegal turn, before the driver could be cited for smoking.

The ban, which takes effect Jan. 1, joins a string of smoking prohibitions adopted in California, including a ban on smoking in enclosed workplaces and within 25 feet of a playground.

A Harvard School of Public Health report issued last year said secondhand smoke in cars can be up to 10 times more of a health risk than secondhand smoke in a home.

"Protecting the health of our children is among government's highest responsibilities," said the bill's author, state Sen. Jenny Oropeza, a Democrat. "It is clear that increasing public awareness about the dangers of secondhand smoke is the right thing to do."

At least 20 states and a number of municipalities have considered limiting smoking in cars where minors are present. Arkansas now bans smoking in cars with children age 6 and younger, while Louisiana has limited it when children 13 and younger are in the vehicle. Maine lawmakers will take up the issue in January.

TCD on April 6

I have developed a very rebellious conclusion. IN honor of Columbus DAy and to celebrate the Italian contribution I think all govt/state offices should be closed, the workers in America should have a day off, and we should all gather in celebration at a pizza/pasta party out in the park of you choice. Drink good Italian wine and be thankful for the Italian people who made it all possible. Through years of being called WOPS and DAGOs they have endured many a hardship by coming to this country. What they have contributed should be celebrated. And celebrate we shall on Oct 6.

see you in the streets

quote of the day

"Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the
troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes...
the ones who see things differently -- they're not
fond of rules... You can quote them, disagree
with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only
thing you can't do is ignore them because
they change things... they push the human
race forward, and while some may see
them as the crazy ones, we see genius,
because the ones who are crazy enough
to think that they can change the world,
are the ones who do." By - Steve Jobs

racism/ anti-semitism is alive and well all over. not just in Jena

In September 2006, a group of African American high school students in Jena, Louisiana, asked the school for permission to sit beneath a "whites only" shade tree. There was an unwritten rule that blacks couldn't sit beneath the tree. The school said they didn't care where students sat. The next day, students arrived at school to see three nooses (in school colors) hanging from the tree. (Please note, the tree above is not the tree, but a tree at Jena High School.)

The boys who hung the nooses were suspended from school for a few days. The school administration chalked it up as a harmless prank, but Jena's black population didn't take it so lightly. Fights and unrest started breaking out at school. The District Attorney, Reed Walters, was called in to directly address black students at the school and told them all he could "end their life with a stroke of the pen."

Black students were assaulted at white parties. A white man drew a loaded rifle on three black teens at a local convenience store. (They wrestled it from him and ran away.) Someone tried to burn down the school, and on December 4th, a fight broke out that led to six black students being charged with attempted murder. To his word, the D.A. pushed for maximum charges, which carry sentences of eighty years. Four of the six are being tried as adults (ages 17 & 18) and two are juveniles.

Yesterday, I was in Jena for the first day of the trial for Mychal Bell, one of the Jena 6. The D.A., perhaps in response to public pressure, tried to get Bell to cop a plea. Bell refused, and today, jury selection began. After today, we'll know whether or not the case will be tried in front of an all-white jury. Jena's 85-percent white, and it remains to be seen whether or not the six can get a fair trial.

Both off-the-record and on, Jena residents told me racism is alive and well in Louisiana, and this is a case where it rose above the levee, so to speak.

Our son is no terrorist.. just a young MUSLIM

Mohammed Siddique, the father of the 21-year-old, said: "After what's happened to my son, stop your children going on the internet in case they end up in jail."
Picture: Ian Rutherford


FOrgive our boy. He has become a tradtional muslim following closer the teaching of Muhammed.. What a crock of crap


By Michael Howie in The Scotsman (thanks to Twostellas):

THE family of Mohammed Atif Siddique, the Scottish student convicted this week of al-Qaeda terrorist offences, have come together to tell of their heartache and their anger at the way he has been treated.

They described how their son adopted a stricter Islamic way of life, a change that fractured their close relationship and ultimately led to his conviction.

But they insisted Atif - who faces at least ten years in prison - was not a terrorist and that his actions were similar to those of thousands of ordinary young Muslims seeking answers about al-Qaeda and the "war on terror".

In a wide-ranging interview, the family claimed "thousands" of other people ran the risk of falling foul of the same offences for which Atif was convicted.

They said he had been criminalised for carrying out research on al-Qaeda.

Atif was the first person in Scotland to be convicted under controversial new terror laws that have raised questions about the balance between civil liberties and protecting the public.

Speaking exclusively to The Scotsman, Mohammed Siddique, the father of the 21-year-old, said: "After what's happened to my son, stop your children going on the internet in case they end up in jail.

"The sad thing is, why shouldn't our young people be able to find out what is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan? Does it mean every child that goes on to a website is considered to be a terrorist? Thousands of young people in the Muslim community will have accessed the same material."

His wife, Parveen, said: "I would like, as a mother, to tell their children not to go anywhere near their computers. But, despite all of that, you cannot say going on the internet is a crime.

"It's not just Muslims that go on these websites; white people also go on them. My son is being made a scapegoat.

The convicted student's brother, Asif, said: "Every Muslim is asking questions within themselves: what is happening in Iraq? Why it is happening? What is happening in Afghanistan, Israel and Palestine?

"I was of the opinion a few years ago that unless s*** was happening on my own doorstep, it was nothing to do with me.

"But Atif was different. He was of the belief that it was to do with us, because we are Muslims and what is happening to them could happen to us. Britain was going in there - they must have a reason, he thought. But the Taleban were retaliating, encouraging people to carry out suicide bombings. Was it justified? What's leading them to do that? These are the questions he was asking."

And...what answers did he discover?

Subject: Seeking Future Employment

This individual seeks an executive position. Availibility January 2009 unless impeached sooner (we can hope), and is willing to relocate.

RESUME:

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520


EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

Law Enforcement:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

Military:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

- I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

- I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

- With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

- I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

- I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

- I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

- I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

- I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

- I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

- I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

- I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

- I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.

- I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

- My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.

- My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

- I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to
intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

- I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

- I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

- I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

- I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.


- I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

- I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

- I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

- I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S . citizens, and the world community.

- I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.

- In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

- I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

- I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.

- I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

-All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

- All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

- All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

alas recreate 68

it is sad now that the left and right are also giving in to the guvt entities who want to squelch the protest at the DNC. the cells are being cleaned at Auraria, the shackles and chains are ordered and the feds are setting up. the homeless will all be removed as will the poor and dowtrodden. Meanwhile the "wall of Amerikkans" will drink the kool-aid and protest the protestors... I say F**K em. Anyone who stands in the way of our RIGHTS goes down.....

a "monkey wrench" absurdity

the more i am hearing about this "homegrown terrorist" plot foiled at JFK, the more I am reminded of about 40 years ago when Edward Abbey wrote the "monkey wrench gang".. Old guy with money and young opportunists blowing up bridges and committing eco terrorism in the deserts of the USA. Fascinating correlation .
Could it be that the terrorists have learned more from our own culture and are using it against us.
something to ponder...

darn they got caught...

4 charged in plot to blow up NYC airport
By ADAM GOLDMAN, Associated Press Writer 14 minutes ago
Federal authorities said a plot by a suspected Muslim terrorist cell to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport, its fuel tanks and a jet fuel artery could have caused "unthinkable" devastation.

But while pipeline and security experts agreed that such an attack would have crippled America's economy, particularly the airline industry, they said it probably would not have led to significant loss of life as intended.

Authorities announced Saturday they had broken up the suspected terrorist cell, arresting three men, one of them a former member of Guyana's parliament. A fourth man was being sought in Trinidad as part of the plot that authorities said they had been tracking for more than a year and was foiled in the planning stages.

"The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable," U.S. Attorney Roslynn R. Mauskopf said at a news conference, calling it "one of the most chilling plots imaginable."

In an indictment charging the four men, one of them is quoted as saying the foiled plot would "cause greater destruction than in the Sept. 11 attacks," destroying the airport, killing several thousand people and destroying parts of New York's borough of Queens, where the pipeline runs underground.

One of the suspects, Russell Defreitas, a U.S. citizen native to Guyana and former JFK air cargo employee, said the airport named for the slain president was targeted because it is a symbol that would put "the whole country in mourning."

"It's like you can kill the man twice," said Defreitas, 63, who first hatched his plan more than a decade ago when he worked as a cargo handler for a service company, according to the indictment.

Authorities said the men were motivated by hatred toward the United States and Israel. Defreitas was recorded saying he "wanted to do something to get those bastards" and he boasted that he had been taught to make bombs in Guyana.

Despite their efforts, the men never obtained any explosives, authorities said.

"Pulling off any bombing of this magnitude would not be easy in today's environment," former U.S. State Department counterterrorism expert Fred Burton said, but added it was difficult to determine without knowing all the facts of the case.

The pipeline, owned by Buckeye Pipeline Co., takes fuel from a facility in Linden, N.J., to the airport. Other lines service LaGuardia Airport and New Jersey's Newark Liberty International Airport.

Buckeye spokesman Roy Haase said the company had been informed of the threat from the beginning.

Richard Kuprewicz, a pipeline expert and president of Accufacts Inc., an energy consulting firm that focuses on pipelines and tank farms, said the force of explosion would depend on the amount of fuel under pressure, but it would not travel up and down the line.

"That doesn't mean wackos out there can't do damage and cause a fire, but those explosions and fires are going to be fairly restricted," he said.

John W. Magaw, a former head of the Transportation Security Administration, told The Washington Post that such an attack "may not cause a lot of deaths, but it would be spectacular and seen around world."

He said it "could cripple the airlines."

Since Defreitas retired from his job at the airport in 1995, security has significantly tightened and his knowledge of the operation was severely outdated.

He was arraigned Saturday in federal court in Brooklyn, where he was held pending a bail hearing Wednesday. His court-appointed lawyer told the judge that officials were not revealing the full story, according to published reports.

Two other men, Abdul Kadir of Guyana and Kareem Ibrahim of Trinidad, were in custody in Trinidad. A fourth man, Abdel Nur of Guyana, was still being sought in Trinidad.

Trevor Paul, the top police official in Trinidad and Tobago, a twin-island nation off Venezuela's coast, said Kadir and Ibrahim would likely be extradited to the U.S. after court hearings in Trinidad.

Authorities said Kadir and Nur were longtime associates of a Trinidadian radical Muslim group, Jamaat al Muslimeen, which launched an unsuccessful rebellion in 1990 that left 24 dead.

Phone calls to Yasin Abu Bakr, the radical group's leader, went unanswered Saturday.

Kadir, a member of Parliament in Guyana until last year, was arrested in Trinidad for attempting to secure money for "terrorist operations," according to a Guyanese police commander who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Isha Kadir, the Guyanese suspect's wife, said her husband flew from Guyana to Trinidad on Thursday. She said he was arrested Friday as he was boarding a flight from Trinidad to Venezuela, where he planned to pick up a travel visa to attend an Islamic religious conference in Iran.

"We have no interest in blowing up anything in the U.S.," she said Saturday from the couple's home in Guyana. "We have relatives in the U.S."

The U.S. Joint Terrorism Task Force recorded and surveilled the men, learning that Defreitas drove around and videotaped JFK four times in January.

When Defreitas returned from Guyana in February, U.S. customs officials searched his belongings and found Kadir's name and telephone number in Defreitas' address book. At that time, Defreitas told an informant he was suspicious the U.S. government was aware of the plot.

Authorities decided to pounce after Defreitas said on May 27 that he was happy to see that the plan, code named "chicken farm," was moving forward, according to the criminal complaint.

Defreitas was nabbed Friday night walking out of a Brooklyn diner.

___

even the guvt is outsourcing.. but intelligence collection

"It appears that more and more of the data collection sanctioned by the US government is passed through the hands of private enterprise, Salon reports. 'Because of the cloak of secrecy thrown over the intelligence budgets, there is no way for the American public, or even much of Congress, to know how those contractors are getting the money, what they are doing with it, or how effectively they are using it. The explosion in outsourcing has taken place against a backdrop of intelligence failures for which the Bush administration has been hammered by critics, from Saddam Hussein's fictional weapons of mass destruction to abusive interrogations that have involved employees of private contractors operating in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Aftergood and other experts also warn that the lack of transparency creates conditions ripe for corruption.'"
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/06/01/intel_contractors/?source=whitelist

give me a break

Al Gore assaulting the Bush admin. I f he had been President more deaths more bloodshed and more controversy would be happeing in our own borders.

the ultimate "communist"

today as I was going thru my files to rid some clutter I came across this obit that I pulled out of the paper who knows how long ago. After rereading it I quietly scanned it for posterity and it will now reside in my blog archives.
ths Ultimate Communist that noone will remember.
I will

i like feminist wardrobe choices

Now these shirts would surely catch my attention.

an interesting site to see this morning

I have heard about phonetic spelling and creative spelling but this one has to top the cake. .
It definitely caught my attention on an otherwise mundane Monday

bourgeois boys club SOCIALIST in 1965

and these guys are at a draft card burning protest in 1965 in suits and ties.
Funny how there are no minorities in this other than the woman

Virginia giving away guns .. vive anarchy

Bloomberg Gun Giveaway' draws hundreds
By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 11 minutes ago
Openly armed firearms enthusiasts packed a normally sedate government building, hoping to win a pistol or rifle and at the same time send a defiant message to gun-control advocates, especially New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights group, organized Thursday night's "Bloomberg Gun Giveaway" in large part to thumb its nose at Bloomberg, who accuses some shops of allowing illegal purchases of firearms that later were used in crimes in his city.

The city has filed federal lawsuits against more than two dozen shops, including six in Virginia.

Two guns were awarded Thursday, a Para-Ordnance pistol and a Varmint Stalker rifle, each worth about $900. The winners did not immediately receive the weapons — they will still be required to undergo federal and state background checks.

The first winner, Jay Minsky, responded with an obscene hand gesture when asked what message he hoped to send to Bloomberg.

"If he doesn't like people in New York having guns, he should deal with New York," said Minsky, who grew up in Brooklyn. "Just keep out of Virginia."

The event drew an overflow crowd at a Fairfax County government building, with the fire marshal aggressively enforcing an occupancy limit of 150 for the meeting hall. Others stood outside and peered through open windows. About 200 people showed.

County officials opposed the drawing but concluded they could not prohibit a group from using the community meeting room because of its political views. The gun-rights group has met in the building for years.

The event drew protests from gun-control advocates and the parents of those killed in last month's shootings at Virginia Tech.

Peter and Cathy Read, whose daughter Mary was one of those killed, held a photo of their daughter outside the building.

"We're not here to have a debate. We're here to witness for our daughter," Peter Read said. "The victims need to be witnessed to. People of the commonwealth can make intelligent decisions about what's right."

Philip Van Cleave, the league's president, said he sympathizes with the families but maintained that some of the deaths might have been prevented if somebody had been armed.

Many in attendance said they were motivated not by the chance of a free gun, but to make a point to Bloomberg and express support for the Second Amendment.

"It'd be nice if I win, but that's not what this is about. It's about my constitutional right to defend myself," said Ron Stuebing, a league member.

The event had been planned for months as a fundraiser for two gun shops being sued by New York City. But officials said that giveaway violated state gambling laws, so the league quickly organized a new giveaway, open to anybody who showed up at its Thursday night meeting.

Most but not all in attendance carried holstered handguns. In Virginia, individuals need a permit only to carry a concealed weapon. Openly visible, holstered guns are permitted without a permit.

Anybody who showed up at Thursday's event was eligible for the drawing — except Bloomberg and his immediate family.

Asked Thursday about the giveaway, Bloomberg said, "I think it's sick, is the nicest ways to phrase it."

Van Cleave responded that the members of his organization are law-abiding citizens, including many retired military, police officers and firefighters.

"If you're saying these are sick people, then I'm proud to be sick," Van Cleave said.

___

Associated Press writer Sara Kugler in New York contributed to this report.

___

On the Net:

http://www.vcdl.org

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov

the Muslim intentions are clear

HMMM I wonder if I have a chance being a muslim Jew.

my 1st post

I am a muslim jew. hated by all and loved by noone.
this is my blog.
read it, be enlightened by it,
then leave.